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	<title>Comments on: Hidden Crisis: High School Dropouts and the Need for Recovery</title>
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	<description>Where La Raza comes to discuss its leaders, where you can learn about issues in Latino politics.</description>
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		<title>By: Former teacher</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-47609</link>
		<dc:creator>Former teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-47609</guid>
		<description>People,
We are after solutions here.  HispanicPundit makes an important point on how we can value an educational voucher as a &quot;seat&quot; that guarantees access to any school.  That will not work unless all schools are required to accept any student up to their reasonable class size capacity.  Where HispanicPundit loses relevance in this discussion is his apparent faith based belief in the invisible hand of the market to solve societal problems.  There is ample proof that without oversight the market will be manipulated to the sole advantage of those who can and at the cost to everyone else.  The list of examples are too long to discuss here.  It is true that simply relying on government to solve the problem of high drop out rates is not working either.  Charter schools and vouchers, properly executed can be of some relief.  Do the vouchers include the cost of transportation if the local school is &quot;shitty&quot;?  If not, perhaps we will not solve the problem with the issuance of vouchers.  Neither charter schools nor vouchers address the roles and responsibilities of parents.  Give the 40 years of wage stagnation, requiring dual parent employment to meet basic family needs, can we single out parents as being necessarily unresponsible?

The problem we are talking about is a symptom of a larger issue.  It is the priorities of how we allocate our resources and our ability to understand the linkage between an educated citizenry and the restoration of democracy in this country.  As it stands today, money is power and power controls how our government spends the tax dollars we citizens pay.  Until the education of all Americans becomes a national priority over war, we will never have the resources to solve the problem.  Until the country acts to take the money out of politics we will be stuck in this educational quagmire.  We are all in this together.  When we give up on a young person and worse a demographic sector of our population, the tax payer will still be on the hook for the cost to institutionalize them or provide them needed basics they will need to survive.  If part of the answer is not to &quot;throw money&quot; at this problem, then tell me why the well off in this society seek to send their children to private schools that have smaller classes, individual instruction, computers, and the chance for students to learn in the way that works for them.  We all learn differently.  I doubt that HispanicPundit ever taught school.  No child left behind&#039;s attempt to standardize education is taking the magic out of learning and teaching. 

One essential requirement to improve that &quot;shitty&quot; school is to reduce class size to allow teachers the opportunity for individual attention.  If it requires more money, then provide it.  If it requires better teachers, then give teachers the skills they need.  Bashing teachers unions is a red herring and takes us away from solving our problem.  Instead of ending tenure, change it so that teachers earn tenure through continuous educational achievements.  

I am incredibly concerned that America is headed for a depression.  Maybe not in technical terms, but a vast majority of our workforce lacks the skill sets needed by the very sectors of our economy that are globally competitive.  So we are not simply talking about young people when we think of education.  Sorry for the rant, and there are many more dots to connect when looking at our systemic problems.  Leave your ideology at the door and maybe,  just maybe, this discussion can produce some ideas and tactics that might work.  Otherwise it is a waste of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People,<br />
We are after solutions here.  HispanicPundit makes an important point on how we can value an educational voucher as a &#8220;seat&#8221; that guarantees access to any school.  That will not work unless all schools are required to accept any student up to their reasonable class size capacity.  Where HispanicPundit loses relevance in this discussion is his apparent faith based belief in the invisible hand of the market to solve societal problems.  There is ample proof that without oversight the market will be manipulated to the sole advantage of those who can and at the cost to everyone else.  The list of examples are too long to discuss here.  It is true that simply relying on government to solve the problem of high drop out rates is not working either.  Charter schools and vouchers, properly executed can be of some relief.  Do the vouchers include the cost of transportation if the local school is &#8220;shitty&#8221;?  If not, perhaps we will not solve the problem with the issuance of vouchers.  Neither charter schools nor vouchers address the roles and responsibilities of parents.  Give the 40 years of wage stagnation, requiring dual parent employment to meet basic family needs, can we single out parents as being necessarily unresponsible?</p>
<p>The problem we are talking about is a symptom of a larger issue.  It is the priorities of how we allocate our resources and our ability to understand the linkage between an educated citizenry and the restoration of democracy in this country.  As it stands today, money is power and power controls how our government spends the tax dollars we citizens pay.  Until the education of all Americans becomes a national priority over war, we will never have the resources to solve the problem.  Until the country acts to take the money out of politics we will be stuck in this educational quagmire.  We are all in this together.  When we give up on a young person and worse a demographic sector of our population, the tax payer will still be on the hook for the cost to institutionalize them or provide them needed basics they will need to survive.  If part of the answer is not to &#8220;throw money&#8221; at this problem, then tell me why the well off in this society seek to send their children to private schools that have smaller classes, individual instruction, computers, and the chance for students to learn in the way that works for them.  We all learn differently.  I doubt that HispanicPundit ever taught school.  No child left behind&#8217;s attempt to standardize education is taking the magic out of learning and teaching. </p>
<p>One essential requirement to improve that &#8220;shitty&#8221; school is to reduce class size to allow teachers the opportunity for individual attention.  If it requires more money, then provide it.  If it requires better teachers, then give teachers the skills they need.  Bashing teachers unions is a red herring and takes us away from solving our problem.  Instead of ending tenure, change it so that teachers earn tenure through continuous educational achievements.  </p>
<p>I am incredibly concerned that America is headed for a depression.  Maybe not in technical terms, but a vast majority of our workforce lacks the skill sets needed by the very sectors of our economy that are globally competitive.  So we are not simply talking about young people when we think of education.  Sorry for the rant, and there are many more dots to connect when looking at our systemic problems.  Leave your ideology at the door and maybe,  just maybe, this discussion can produce some ideas and tactics that might work.  Otherwise it is a waste of time.</p>
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		<title>By: HispanicPundit</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40717</link>
		<dc:creator>HispanicPundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40717</guid>
		<description>Anna,

First of all, there is no reason why a voucher shouldn&#039;t cover the full cost of a private school. In fact, I argue for precisely that. Specifically, the poorer you are, the &lt;i&gt;bigger&lt;/i&gt; should be your voucher. 

With that said, try to imagine a situation where you live in the ghetto and you are forced, because of monetary constrains, to send your kid to the neighborhood school. If that school sucks - and I mean sucks, where basic concerns like security are lacking - what options do you have? Sure, you can complain to the principle, the teachers, and write letters to your congressmen...but really, what would that get you? Nothing. Ultimately, you would be &lt;i&gt;forced&lt;/i&gt; to send your kid to a shitty school.

Vouchers changes all that. Vouchers would give you options. Now, that shitty public school would be under serious pressure to reform or else go out of business. Think of it this way: what provides you better service, Verizon Wireless or the DMV? The reason that Verizon Wireless provides you better service is because it knows that if you get pissed off enough, you can switch and go to AT&amp;T. The DMV, on the other hand, is under no such pressure. If you don&#039;t like the way they treat you - well, you have to go to them anyways. 

Our public education system, especially the public education system in the ghetto, is essentially a government monopoly. And we all know how bad monopolies can be. Vouchers changes all that.

Regarding where these kids wind up, personally, I could careless. Whether that be a different public school, a private school, or even an online school. Who cares? So long as they get educated.

I&#039;ve answered your questions,  can you please answer mine:  where do you get the crazy idea that more funding for public education equals better results?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna,</p>
<p>First of all, there is no reason why a voucher shouldn&#8217;t cover the full cost of a private school. In fact, I argue for precisely that. Specifically, the poorer you are, the <i>bigger</i> should be your voucher. </p>
<p>With that said, try to imagine a situation where you live in the ghetto and you are forced, because of monetary constrains, to send your kid to the neighborhood school. If that school sucks &#8211; and I mean sucks, where basic concerns like security are lacking &#8211; what options do you have? Sure, you can complain to the principle, the teachers, and write letters to your congressmen&#8230;but really, what would that get you? Nothing. Ultimately, you would be <i>forced</i> to send your kid to a shitty school.</p>
<p>Vouchers changes all that. Vouchers would give you options. Now, that shitty public school would be under serious pressure to reform or else go out of business. Think of it this way: what provides you better service, Verizon Wireless or the DMV? The reason that Verizon Wireless provides you better service is because it knows that if you get pissed off enough, you can switch and go to AT&amp;T. The DMV, on the other hand, is under no such pressure. If you don&#8217;t like the way they treat you &#8211; well, you have to go to them anyways. </p>
<p>Our public education system, especially the public education system in the ghetto, is essentially a government monopoly. And we all know how bad monopolies can be. Vouchers changes all that.</p>
<p>Regarding where these kids wind up, personally, I could careless. Whether that be a different public school, a private school, or even an online school. Who cares? So long as they get educated.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve answered your questions,  can you please answer mine:  where do you get the crazy idea that more funding for public education equals better results?</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40680</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40680</guid>
		<description>You are going to have to be more specific when you say &quot;competition.&quot; Where do you think these thousands of inner city children are going to go with their vouchers? First of all, the vouchers wouldn&#039;t be that big, as the whole point of vouchers is to eliminate what is left of education for inner city children. They will not cover the full cost of a private school.

These kids will end up at an online &quot;school,&quot; run by some campaign contributor who will get a big government contract.  

As for the second part of your comment--it&#039;s sad. Poor people are always brainwashed to believe that no money should be spent on them, and that they don&#039;t deserve anything.  
  
Also, people need to learn how to vote.  

Who in their right mind would put a body builder in charge of the eighth largest economy in the world? Now everybody is shocked--shocked!--that he&#039;s running the place into the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are going to have to be more specific when you say &#8220;competition.&#8221; Where do you think these thousands of inner city children are going to go with their vouchers? First of all, the vouchers wouldn&#8217;t be that big, as the whole point of vouchers is to eliminate what is left of education for inner city children. They will not cover the full cost of a private school.</p>
<p>These kids will end up at an online &#8220;school,&#8221; run by some campaign contributor who will get a big government contract.  </p>
<p>As for the second part of your comment&#8211;it&#8217;s sad. Poor people are always brainwashed to believe that no money should be spent on them, and that they don&#8217;t deserve anything.  </p>
<p>Also, people need to learn how to vote.  </p>
<p>Who in their right mind would put a body builder in charge of the eighth largest economy in the world? Now everybody is shocked&#8211;shocked!&#8211;that he&#8217;s running the place into the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: HispanicPundit</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40623</link>
		<dc:creator>HispanicPundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40623</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What’s to stop the same problems from being transferred to a charter school or a voucher school? If the same people with the same limited outlook are running those schools, nothing will change.&lt;/i&gt;

Easy - competition. The fundamental difference between vouchers and charter schools vs your traditional public school system is competition. 

With vouchers and charter schools come options and with options come power. Currently families in the ghetto have no options and the school system knows this. Vouchers fundamentally changes that.

&lt;i&gt;Why aren’t more Latinos demanding an end to the education cuts? &lt;/i&gt;

Anna, where do you get the crazy idea that more funding for public education equals better results? That&#039;s simply not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What’s to stop the same problems from being transferred to a charter school or a voucher school? If the same people with the same limited outlook are running those schools, nothing will change.</i></p>
<p>Easy &#8211; competition. The fundamental difference between vouchers and charter schools vs your traditional public school system is competition. </p>
<p>With vouchers and charter schools come options and with options come power. Currently families in the ghetto have no options and the school system knows this. Vouchers fundamentally changes that.</p>
<p><i>Why aren’t more Latinos demanding an end to the education cuts? </i></p>
<p>Anna, where do you get the crazy idea that more funding for public education equals better results? That&#8217;s simply not true.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40618</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40618</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;I look closely to see if they mention charter schools and vouchers.&quot;

Charter schools and vouchers in and of themselves don&#039;t mean anything. What&#039;s to stop the same problems from being transferred to a charter school or a voucher school? If the same people with the same limited outlook are running those schools, nothing will change. 

I think a lot of people aren&#039;t motivated because they don&#039;t think their hard work will pay off. That&#039;s where mentoring and career days can help. Children and teens need to be able to communicate with Latino doctors, lawyers, engineers, business owners, college students, etc. from an early age. 

That being said, the state of CA has pretty much destroyed K-12 education. Institutional racism is real. Some of these inner city schools are huge and not equipped to graduate every student. They just house them. The kids who figure that out leave. 

Why aren&#039;t more Latinos demanding an end to the education cuts? People should be calling Arnold, Feinstien, Boxer and Obama over and over and demanding an end to it. They should stop stealing our tax dollars and giving them to corrupt Wall St. CEOs. 

People need to wake up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;I look closely to see if they mention charter schools and vouchers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Charter schools and vouchers in and of themselves don&#8217;t mean anything. What&#8217;s to stop the same problems from being transferred to a charter school or a voucher school? If the same people with the same limited outlook are running those schools, nothing will change. </p>
<p>I think a lot of people aren&#8217;t motivated because they don&#8217;t think their hard work will pay off. That&#8217;s where mentoring and career days can help. Children and teens need to be able to communicate with Latino doctors, lawyers, engineers, business owners, college students, etc. from an early age. </p>
<p>That being said, the state of CA has pretty much destroyed K-12 education. Institutional racism is real. Some of these inner city schools are huge and not equipped to graduate every student. They just house them. The kids who figure that out leave. </p>
<p>Why aren&#8217;t more Latinos demanding an end to the education cuts? People should be calling Arnold, Feinstien, Boxer and Obama over and over and demanding an end to it. They should stop stealing our tax dollars and giving them to corrupt Wall St. CEOs. </p>
<p>People need to wake up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40608</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40608</guid>
		<description>They don&#039;t have to give interviews, but I would like it if the media did stories about them. I have seen stories about Sally Ride, etc but never any Latino astronauts. I bet many Latinos do not even know they exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They don&#8217;t have to give interviews, but I would like it if the media did stories about them. I have seen stories about Sally Ride, etc but never any Latino astronauts. I bet many Latinos do not even know they exist.</p>
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		<title>By: webmaster</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40602</link>
		<dc:creator>webmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40602</guid>
		<description>Anna, 

If you are going to post links, please do so with some commentary. Otherwise, it looks like you are shilling for another site or just trying to drive traffic. 

Now, I did go to that site, and while I&#039;m impressed with Latino NASA scientists, I have a feeling that they do not necessarily want to be on TV. Their research and pursuit of knowledge is what drives them, not being on television or winning elections (popularity contests).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna, </p>
<p>If you are going to post links, please do so with some commentary. Otherwise, it looks like you are shilling for another site or just trying to drive traffic. </p>
<p>Now, I did go to that site, and while I&#8217;m impressed with Latino NASA scientists, I have a feeling that they do not necessarily want to be on TV. Their research and pursuit of knowledge is what drives them, not being on television or winning elections (popularity contests).</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40601</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40601</guid>
		<description>http://latinoenamerica.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://latinoenamerica.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://latinoenamerica.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: HispanicPundit</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40600</link>
		<dc:creator>HispanicPundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40600</guid>
		<description>Joe Citizen,

Completely agree. In fact, there is considerable evidence that it is precisely the &quot;we have to do something&quot; mentality that has made things worse. 

One can make a very strong argument that welfare and government programs in general have tended to exacerbate the problem instead of alleviate it. Which is why I focus on external sources most - vouchers and charter schools - instead of those closer to home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Citizen,</p>
<p>Completely agree. In fact, there is considerable evidence that it is precisely the &#8220;we have to do something&#8221; mentality that has made things worse. </p>
<p>One can make a very strong argument that welfare and government programs in general have tended to exacerbate the problem instead of alleviate it. Which is why I focus on external sources most &#8211; vouchers and charter schools &#8211; instead of those closer to home.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Citizen</title>
		<link>http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-40586</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2009/07/23/hidden-crisis-high-school-dropouts-and-the-need-for-recovery/#comment-40586</guid>
		<description>How about thier parents start helping out?  Why is it up to the rest of society to do the heavy lifting after conception?  Free breakfast, lunch and dinner(see Chino school district).  Free after school and summer babysitting and what do we get for all of it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about thier parents start helping out?  Why is it up to the rest of society to do the heavy lifting after conception?  Free breakfast, lunch and dinner(see Chino school district).  Free after school and summer babysitting and what do we get for all of it?</p>
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