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Monday Post: What we have been reading

November 23rd, 2009 · 16 Comments

I will be adding some new blog posts this week, but there have been some interesting items in the news worth noting.

Lou Dobbs ponders a run for the Senate or the White House. I think that the opposition would have a field day with some of the outrageous things Lou has spewed forth.

Ruben Navarrette suggests that undocumented Mexicans self-deport. His argument is somewhat well constructed, but I think that this kind of rhetoric will empower Minutemen groups who will attempt to assist in the self-deportations. Actually, I would love to see Ruben pitch this idea to La Opinion or any other outlet with more of an immigrant audience just to see the reaction it produces. It is easy for the “Harvard Chicano” to make these suggestions to what I assume is a more upper income, conservative San Diego set of readers.

Finally, Marco Rubio, the Florida GOP Senatorial primary candidate, says that he would welcome an endorsement from Sarah Palin. Sure, she’s very popular, but after what happened to the candidate she endorsed in NY, I don’t know if I would be rushing to welcome anything from her.

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Tags: Immigration · Media · Ruben Navarrette

16 responses so far ↓

  • 1 stephen // Nov 23, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    I don’t know if Navarette is saying anything even remotely controversial. Many immigrants do go back for the very reason he advises. Perhaps this is controversial within the immigration debate, as suggested above, but the best response as I can see is to dismiss this as something we already know. Any minutemen who uses this as ammunition is an idiot for not understanding the fluid reality of our border.

    Anyways, I also don’t know if a Palin endorsement is that bad. Hoffman was a third party candidate and came close. Many absentee ballots were sent before Scozzafava pulled out of the race. Rubio sounds like a punk, but Palin’s numbers aren’t even that much worse than Obama’s currently are and Obama didn’t exactly have a ringing success in his very public endorsements in Virginia and New Jersey.

  • 2 Anna // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    NAVARETTE: “The main reason that most Mexicans are here in the first place isn’t for freedom or a fresh start, but simply to make enough money to send home to their relatives so that their lives in Mexico might be a little easier.”

    What a ridiculous comment. First of all, if you don’t have enough to eat, or a roof over your head, you don’t have any freedom. Economics and freedom are not mutually exclusive. A wanna be conservative like Ruben should know that.

    He also makes it seem like they’re coming here just to send their families some extra pocket money. Yeah, those people who risk arrest and death crossing the desert to work in the fields are just trying to make their families lives a little easier. It’s not about survival or anything like that.

    Ruben is out to lunch. He’s lost his mind. Oh, and somebody tell him that immigrants who choose to go back can also be arrested and imprisoned at the border. They get them going either way now.

  • 3 Cockroach People // Nov 23, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    “Anyways, I also don’t know if a Palin endorsement is that bad. Hoffman was a third party candidate and came close. Many absentee ballots were sent before Scozzafava pulled out of the race. Rubio sounds like a punk, but Palin’s numbers aren’t even that much worse than Obama’s currently are and Obama didn’t exactly have a ringing success in his very public endorsements in Virginia and New Jersey.”

    “If, acccording to you, Palin’s numbers aren’t “much worse” than Obama’s and Obama “didn’t exactly have a ringing success,” then why is it that you don’t know if a Palin endorsement is that bad? Unless of course, you’re point about Obama is merely a non sequitur functioning as an expression of your ideological commitments.

    If you only mean to say that the lead enjoyed by Owens might have been greater had Palin not endorsed Hoffman, then I humbly await any evidence that the absentee ballots cast for the pro-choice, pro-marriage equality Scozzafava would have gone to Hoffman.

  • 4 stephen // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    Cockroach…when I said “i don’t know if Palin’s endorsement is that bad” that’s all I meant. I have no ideological commitments as they pertain to Palin or Obama. Talk about non sequitur. Odd that you should cast those stones.

    I mean I wouldn’t dismiss Palin’s endorsement out of hand because of an obscure Congressional election in which the institutional candidate for the GOP dropped out a few days before the election only to endorse the Democrat. To draw the inference that Palin’s impact was negative in that race is unlikely. Just a hunch. That Rubio should not desire that endorsement for the tenuous reason of NY-32 seems more ideologically committed.

    Palin endorsed Christie, who won, and Daggett’s performance was subpar compared to where he was polling. Perhaps Palin had something to do with this. Perhaps not. Maybe Obama’s sheen was wearing off. Maybe its not static, but about momentum.

    BTW, when I think of Coackroach People, I think of Acosta. Is that where you get your handle?

  • 5 Cockroach People // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    Again, if you believe that Obama’s endorsement was not a ringing success, then it’s certainly possible that his low numbers made his endorsement not so good. Logically, using your comparison of Palin’s numbers to his, then it is certainly possible that Palin’s endorsement was bad. I am trying to follow the comparison you put forward. If that is not what you meant then the mention of obama’s low numbers and his lack of “ringing sucesss” don’t fit into your argument, thus causing me to perceive a non sequitur and perhaps erroneously attributing it to an unstated ideological commitment.

    The Republican base for Scozzafava was most likely moderate to liberal. Why would they support Hoffman given that many of them hated both Owens (might this be because of his perceived right-wing leaning, emphasized by the Palin endorsement?) and Hoffman yet liked Obama? The numbers don’t add up unless one assumes without evidence that the moderate republicans in the district would have actually turned out to vote for Hoffman or would have cast absentees for him. In fact, I too have a hunch that such moderates (again, Scozzafava’s base) would prefer not to vote at all except for some loyalists that could have been persuaded by Scozzafava had she instead endorsed Hoffman. My hunch is partially based on the actual numbers and is influenced by an analysis that a former classmate of mine recently thought out before the election was over:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/10/scozzafavas-supporters-like-obama.html

    yes cockroach people is a shout-out to Acosta, but mainly because I like the term as metaphor for the wretched of the earth…

  • 6 Cockroach People // Nov 23, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    I said: “(might this be because of his perceived right-wing leaning, emphasized by the Palin endorsement?)”
    This was meant for Hoffman not Owens–oops.

  • 7 Cockroach People // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Sorry for the spam…LOL

    I do think stephen is right that Palin’s endorsement should not be dismissed out of hand–it could be valuable in an area that matches the Palin brand, as it were. But the question is whether Florida is like the NY-23 (not 32 BTW) in terms of moderates. In that case, Palin’s endorsement of Hoffman in a district you note is obscure may be relevant if there are enough moderates that feel unrepresented by Rubio’s rhetoric.

  • 8 stephen // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    The Palin-Obama comparison is, again, one of momentum not static.

    Silver’s analysis is pre-Scozzafava’s endorsement, and, for our purposes in this discussion regarding Palin, it takes Hoffman’s candidacy as a given, though he admits underplaying the enthusiasm factor, of which Palin was a part of. I respect Silver’s prowess alot, as well as his dad’s, but he’s a Democrat at heart. Nothing wrong with that, but he tends to underplay in one direction. Again, nothing wrong with that.

  • 9 stephen // Nov 23, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    BTW, it may be a bad idea for the GOP to nominate Rubio over Crist. Don’t know if Palin will jump in prior to that decision, but Rubio sure seems to be playing the Hoffman card, though not as an outsider. Florida core-Republicans may be just as dumb as California Orange County Republicans by electing ideological purists who are unelectable.

  • 10 webmaster // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:00 am

    “BTW, it may be a bad idea for the GOP to nominate Rubio over Crist.”

    stephen, I tend to believe this too, if one doesn’t want the GOP to take the Florida Senate seat being vacated by Mel Martinez. I don’t even think that Mel Martinez was as conservative as Rubio purports to be.

    As for FL core-GOPers being “as dumb” as CA Orange County GOPers, I see similarities in both areas. Both have an influx of immigrants, some fleeing cold war hotbeds (Cuba and Vietnam (Garden Grove)), mega-churches and evangelical presence, etc.

    Here is a piece from a few weeks ago arguing that Crist doesn’t deserve GOP support since he is “an enemy of life and the traditional family.”

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1330911.html

  • 11 stephen // Nov 24, 2009 at 12:57 am

    oy vey

  • 12 Cockroach People // Nov 24, 2009 at 6:40 am

    “I respect Silver’s prowess alot, as well as his dad’s, but he’s a Democrat at heart. Nothing wrong with that, but he tends to underplay in one direction. Again, nothing wrong with that.”

    I agree about Nate’s leanings, but any opposing analysis of his numbers or your own are certainly welcome…otherwise I’ll take that statement as an argumentum ad hominem…

    Yes Mr. Silver is cool too, though I haven’t read much by him except his analysis of the Patriot Act and public opinion or something to that effect.

  • 13 Stephen A. Nuño // Nov 24, 2009 at 8:53 am

    there is no “opposing” analysis per se. He makes predictions based on data and whatever qualitative measures he chooses to use as his base assumptions. His predictions tend to overplay his political and ideological commitments. That’s all. This isn’t a dig.

  • 14 Xavier Cardenas // Nov 24, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Most of the GOPers are fooled into believing that they can return to a white is right yesteryear. The reality is that they better recognize times they are a chang’in and they will be left without a seat when the music stops.

  • 15 Southern Cali // Nov 25, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Lou Dobbs will struggle running for the Senate. He couldn’t respond intelligently to Jon Stewart’s (host Daily Show) questions/comments last night. Without a teleprompter or a book editor he can’t construct one coherent sentence.

  • 16 Reyfeo // Nov 28, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    That’s funny, neither can Obama, I guess he qualifies…LOL!

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